26 July, 2006

Smug Gays and Marriage

Although I doubt I will personally ever get married, I don't have a problem with other gay people choosing to do so. In fact, I support whatever decision someone makes for themselves with regards to commitment - after all, it is their relationship, not mine.

That said, I am finding it quite difficult at the moment with various people around me.

TWG (The Welsh Gay) is currently planning his marriage to the man he has been in a relationship with for 7 years. Great. Apart from the fact that they have both had 'extra-marital' affairs and search for 'extra-marital' trysts together constantly.

Um, sorry - but how does that fit in to the 'sanctity' of marriage? For example:

"I, John take thee Barry to be my wedded husband, to have and to hold from this day forward, for richer or poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, till in death we part, and with this ring I thee wed, and with my body I thee honor, and pledge my unfaithfulness."

Actually Barry - it's all about the threesomes. Why bother marry, TWG? And what exact reason do you have to be so smug about it?


Twinkle Monkey said...


It's wrong, WRONG I tell you!
However, (TM will now try and play a devlis advocate - ha ha ha - that was meant to be a demonic laugh!!)However, I do think that the people believed that marriage was only for one man and one women for a very long time - this definition has now changed...so maybe, just maybe, people can have an 'open' relationship while still being married...



ziggystardust73 said...

I *really* don't have a problem with the gays getting married, as you well know I have various coupled friends who have already done the deed or are considering it...

I do have a problem with gays who 'pretend' to fulfil the necessary expectations in order to 'marry' where in reality, they fulfill none of them. I have a problem with the straights who are equally as hypoctrical!

Devil's advocate? You? NEVER. :-)

angel, jr. said...

I agree, a committment is sacred and should be held in high esteem.

~ good girl ~ said...

AMEN! I'm fully for marriage, straight or gay. It's the vows one believes in and then commits to. Extra-marital affairs are a big NO-NO! As for looking for trysts together, it is called threesomes and/or moresomes, something which in theory, I have no nothing against. I say in theory becuase I haven't done the swing thing myself..yet :-) Lol.

I agree, Ziggy, it is a sacred union and one people take too lightly these days. I want to love someone so much, so very much, that there is no room for another one else in my silly little heart. That's why we seek, isn't it? For that joy of giving to one fully and to receive likewise.

GG xo

Bluez628 said...

I can not comment on this subject as I was very bad at that marriage thing.

Ryan said...

Marriage? :0


Dan Project 76 said...

I fucking hate Shit Gays like him and that George Michaels. How dare he say that forraging for cock in the woods and flapping his cock out in a loo is normal gay behaviour?

At least your friend can have the vows re-written to suit his needs. Ours were sweet and lovely. It almost made me cry. But I am a man :-)

Dale said...

Marriage is a beautiful thing when it works and that don't happen so often. Your post is on the money. The haircut made you do it, didn't it?

missy said...

Can I assume that there will be better dancing in this wedding, though?

Saviour Onassis said...

For me, the word "marriage" holds incredible gravity. My parents are still married and have lived together through many horrific events. Some of the relationships I have had ended over trivial things like the fidelity of my partner. I take commitment very seriously and only want to find someone who feels the same way. Extra-marital affairs drive me up the wall. I have broken up with several married men after seeing photos of their children. Call me a prude.

ziggystardust73 said...

Angel, ain't that the truth.

GG - *silly* little heart? I don't think so girlfriend. There isn't anything silly about your heart from what I can see...

Bluez - just because your marriage didn't work out doesn't mean you can't have an opinion on it! In fact, surely you are more entitled to one?!?! :-)

Ryan, I thought you wanted to marry me.

Dan - I was wondering how you would respond to this post and am so pleased you agree with me. You guys obviously got it right!

Dale - am I bovvered though?

Missy - perhaps, if you are into hotpants and cropped tops.... oops.

Saviour - my parents have been married for 40 years and still TRULY love one another. They set a precedent for me which always sits somewhere in the back of my mind, regardless of who I'm seeing - it's hard work but I'm glad it's there :-) ... Prude.

K~ said...

Ziggy London's Style Icon and Mysterious Pole Dancer,

I all for anyone who wants to be married to be married to whom they love not who society brands as being "right."

Although I'm straight I doubt I'll ever get married. It's to far cynical of an institution to me.

So Ziggy? Dear one, attend drink and be merry :)

ziggystardust73 said...

K~ we were commenting at exactly the same time! Society is an odd creature, isn't it?!

I'm with you on the drinking and being merry front.... !

DaBich said...

Marriage should be be between TWO people only...threesomes don't belong in the institution!! Stick to your guns!

running42k said...

Ziggy my man, that can be written about marriage, you don't have to mention the gay. Many, many heterosexual marriages have extramariatal affairs.

Some people are more committed then others, gay straight or somewhere inbetween.

ziggystardust73 said...

I'm with you Dabich.

Running - I agree, although there seems to be a 'bending'(excuse the pun) of the traditions surrounding marriage within the gay community in order to fit their lifestyles versus working within the boundaries of 'marriage' as a concept.

Usually infidelity starts AFTER heterosexuals decide to get married, rather than before like the gays! (not all gays I might add, just a certain percentage of the population....)

ziggystardust73 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
J said...

i read an article a few months ago in New York magazine that infidelity is starting to become the norm in relationships and that even in marriages, there are people that are cool with their partners going out and getting some on the side because somehow it improves the marriage. i don't get that at all. i got into this huge argument with this married guy over that issue because he really believed that having a little fun on the side kept the marriage healthy. we all safely assumed that he was cheating on his wife, who i felt very sorry for. he felt it was justified because if he wasn't being satisfied at home, he had the right to seek gratification elsewhere. that's the problem with this world; too many people obsessed with instant gratification.

Miz BoheMia said...

Marriage on paper is a sham and a political tool, blah, blah, blah that we should all, ironically, have a right to... said the married bohemian (to me it was a symbolic act and hey, I was planning to be with the guy forever so what difference signing a piece of paper? Got me a snazzy ring! Oooh! ;-) )

But when it comes to any relationship, whether married or no, I simply cannot understand the whole threesome-let's-do-someone-outside-of-the-relationship-thing... ugh! To me nothing is sexier than being with the same person and even the predictability of things is a high as it means I am safe, and I know him and he is home... anything beyond that, though yeah live like you want, is ugh to me,, UGH I SAY!

You are always fab to me Ziggy... always!

Bluez628 said...

Ok here's my opinion. My ex left me for trailer park trash when my son was 4 and my daughter was 2 months old. That was 20 years ago. My experience with being married was SO bad, I can honestly say I will NEVER get married again. My stuff is mine and it will stay mine :-) After all, I worked my ass off for what I've got, including 2 most excellent children. Marriage to me will never be an option.

P.S. I didn't have time to fix my blog last night, there was just too much good reality show tv on the tube...will fix tonight

ziggystardust73 said...

J - instant gratification - so true: thing is, surely one can get that from one partner? And surely that gratification can extend past the instant? Apparently not for many people out there... including this married man you were speaking to.

Miz Boho - I don't have a problem with people getting married, honest! I just value it for what I believe it to be - and as you said, 3 people ain't it!

Bluez - I'm with you. As an aside though, nowhere does better than the US of A at trailer park trash, do they??! Now GO fix your blog! :-)

~ good girl ~ said...


That went straight to my heart. Sigh. Why do you have to be so far away? I have a need now to weep at your feet xo

After which we'll go knock back a few and talk about haircuts, handsome blue-eyed lawyers (yours and mine), and why leggings just aren't for every girl. Unless she has nice legs. Which I have. But that's not the point.

Though nice legs have got me far.

Oh, I'm shameless.

fat hugs and wet smooches,
GG xo

Miz BoheMia said...

Oooh! GG is here! She is delightful indeed! If I liked chics I would fall in love with her! Dreamy gal that you are GG!

I know you have no problems with peeps getting married! Oh my comments have been disjointed but I have been in sinusy pain, PAIN I SAY! Forgive me dear Ziggy de mi corazon! The view was mine... marriage on paper is basically that and has its perks and legal guarantees... otherwise screw it for what really matters is what is inside.

I hope I did a better job this time!

Where are you? 'Tis lonely without my Ziggy around! *sigh*



Dale said...

I thought of asking if you thought I was bovvered but held off Zig. How very dare you? I say that a hundred times a day now, hopefully for everyone else, I will tire of it soon.

My folks are married 55 years now.

constant rain said...

AHHH!! (my scream of anger and craziness)..

And that's what I think about everything.

Ryan said...

Noo. I make fuck you and make you cum every Sunday morning in the wee hours of new sunlight. No, wait. Actually, it's raining. Pouring, if you will. Yes. ;)

~ good girl ~ said...

lol@MizB!! Well, come on over then, chica!! xo Yes, wherefore art thou Ziggy?

ziggystardust73 said...

*ziggy giggles at gg* - you're so right, leggings aren't for every girl, indeed.

Loving the weeping at my feet by the way - why are YOU so far away? Imagine the glittery cocktail fuelled evenings we could have!

Miz B - you always do a fabulous job and don't let ANYONE tell you otherwise! Besos right back.

Dale - please don't worry about me tiring of Catherine Tate - I never will! But am I bovvered? Amazing about your parents... Mine are heading in the same direction... amazing, isn't it?

Ryan - what do I say to that? *ziggy blushes*

Good Girl - wherefore art I? who knows.... I get lost quite a lot... !

~ good girl ~ said...


Tell you what, gay or straight, they all love the weeping at feet *grin* Your compliment about my vibrating test has inspired me.

My lips await ;-)

GG xo

Bluez628 said...

I just wanted to be your 30th comment. hehehe

Dale said...

This morning, a coworker who I'd forced Catherine Tate on left me a 2 minute voice mail that started with 'can't take my phone call? but am I bovvered? Am I bovvered vo?'. She went through the routine flawlessly. I was so proud. Almost prouder than I am of my parents for not killing each other.

Bluez628 said...

Ziggy, I give Belle de jour 4 stars. Loved it. I bet she could make a gay man straight:-)

Dan Project 76 said...

How many comments? Fucking hell!

I still hate George Michaels and his gay chip on his gay shoulder about people not approving of his 'gay lifestyle.'

I am such a puritan these days.

Bluez628 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
cuteCTguy said...

Wow - you seemed to have touched a nerve here. Agree with your original blog!!

Ms. Live and Let Live said...

Okay, now that everyone has said how gross and horrendous extra-marital affairs are, I thought I might pipe in.

My husband and I are those "weird people" that have affairs outside of our marriage. But it's not as simple as just going out and hooking up with some random stranger for a night of passion. There are rules, and boundaries and lots of things that go along with it.

I married my husband because I love him and will love him for the rest of my life. He is the only person that will EVERY hold my heart like he does.

Yes, we're strange, but we're incredibly happy and still have amazing sex together. So, does that make us wrong?

Bluez628 said...

I guess I'm the first one to say it ms live and let live, um, if you're so happy why do you cut yourself ?

ziggystardust73 said...

Ms. live and let live. I think your profile name probably indicates that my argument is not going to be listened to regardless, however, just to clarify - I think marriage should involve only 2 people.

However, as I pointed out in the original post, "I support whatever decision someone makes for themselves with regards to commitment - after all, it is their relationship, not mine."

Marriage is a tradition that in my opinion, should be taken as the tradition it is rather than manipulated to suit people's personal needs.

But hey - good to see you here (even though we will have to agree to disagree!) and welcome to the madhouse!

Ms. Live and Let Live said...

Agreeing to disagree is just fine with me. (Hey, a rhyme!) Just wanted to clarify that it's not always all about just sex and "finding a threesome" you know?

And to be honest, if it weren't for people having differing opinions on things in this world, it would be rather boring all around.

ben said...

Hello Zigster. You said nice things about me over on Gay Banker's blog, so I thought I would visit and say nice things about you. Interesting blog you have here. Couldn't agree more with your views on this marriage. Particularly like Dan's addition of an 's' to the end of George Michael's surname - let's all do it in future, just to annoy the twat. Anyway - I'll pop in from time to time.

ziggystardust73 said...

Ben - welcome! And congratulations on reaching the 5 year mark with your boyfriend (read that over at Gay Banker's) and still being in the giggly stage - how fantastic. I'm slightly envious!

Glad that you agree with my views on marriage and Dan always manages to put in some little titbit like that to make us all laugh...

Please do keep popping in, it's great to see you!

Dan Project 76 said...

We're still at the giggly stage after over 6 years. It's essential!

Chris said...

Nice blog, but I have to disagree with your post.
It's not gay marriage - it's a civil partnership. It's more to do with legal rights than any sort of 'sanctity' (which is a religous term). No-one is saying gay relationships are holy, but they certainly can should be recognised in law.

And as for 3somes and affairs, if it works for the couple concerned, then I don't see it as a problem. People need to judge less.
I find it laughable that some guys who can't make a relationship work longer than x months, (not referring to anyone in particular) see themselves as relationship experts and want to lecture poeple who have been together 7 years and are committed enough to civilly partner.

ziggystardust73 said...

Hi Chris

I was using the term 'gay marriage' as that is what TWG (and others I know) have referred to it as.

I completely understand and respect the legal reasons behind civil partnerships, however, take issue with gay men like TWG (I referred to him in my post) who want to label it a 'marriage' (in which case the 'sanctity' I was referring to is surely appropriate).

I'm sure (in fact, I've met you - you might not recognise me in this relatively anonymous blog) that you are right about people needing to judge less, and as I said in my post:

"I support whatever decision someone makes for themselves with regards to commitment - after all, it is their relationship, not mine."

However, in my opinion, the label of 'marriage' is about tradition and that tradition should be maintained in the spirit it was created.

Chris said...

Hi Ziggy,

No, you're right, I didn't recognise you from the crown and circle. ;-)

We're proably having to going to agree to disagree on this one. I don't see that calling it 'gay marriage' in any way infers sanctity or faithfulness. As you said "it's their realtionship not yours".

And the whole smugness thing - some of the comments on here regarding a relationship people know nothing about are just that, smug.

Whis is not to say TWG isn't annoying to you personally.

ziggystardust73 said...

I'm cool to agree to disagree.... it's difficult to debate something frankly based around semantics in the comments section of a blog, regardless!

so anyway - I hope you and Paul are good!

be cool to catch up sometime seeing as we are practically local to one another... !

Chris said...

ok that'd be cool - but you might have to let us know who this is? I remember the party I think - (at S + K's flat?) or maybe it was another one - anyway a face to remind us would be nice!

ziggystardust73 said...

probably easiest if you drop me an email - and yes, it was at S & K's flat... my email is ziggystardust73@excite.com